DPRG mailing list archives: [DPRG] Processing unit for mobile robot

Sun Apr 27 14:27:31 CDT 2008

Hi,

I'm on the robotics team at UT Austin, and we've done quite a bit of
work mentoring and starting FIRST teams in the Austin area over the
last two years.  I attended the FIRST Championship in Atlanta last
weekend and was there for the announcement of the new Compact RIO
control system.   As previously said, this new controller does have a
higher retail price (~$4000), but the price for teams is not
increasing (the entry fee) since National Instruments is donating the
majority of the cost.  After a team gets their first controller, that
team will not receive an additional controller the following years,
but will still pay the same entry fee.  They can however purchase one
controller per year at a heavily discounted price (~$1200) if teams
want to keep robots from past years still working.

FIRST also announced last week that there will definitely be a
regional in Dallas next year (2009), as well as in New Zealand and
Washington D.C.  So there will probably be some major growth with
starting new teams in the Dallas area over the coming year.  Anyone
interested in helping to mentor teams in Dallas next year should sign
up on the mentor search page: mentor.txfirst.org

-Richard McClellan

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:54 PM,  <steve at txtulip.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>     Having a little inside info on FIRST I know there are many discussions
> about the change to the Compact RIO as the new controller and how it will
> all work. National Instruments has been courting FIRST for the last three
> years or so to convince FIRST to use their controller. I believe the reason
> is twofold. the IFI controller doesn't currently support USB so FIRST needed
> to upgrade anyway and the other reason is that NI wants to pursue an "Apple"
> strategy by  introducing their equipment to future engineers at an early
> age, betting that they have a positive bias towards NI gear when they enter
> the workforce. They have offered a free copy of Labview for many years so
> they must have seen some positive benefits from that.
>      The controller WILL cost more but instead of receiving a new controller
> every year, Teams will keep using the previous years controller and may
> receive a "virtual" discount by not having to buy a new controller the
> following years . The RIO is also expandable  so  a team may elect to add
> new modules to customize their units. At least, this is some of the
> discussion so far.
>
>      The argument that it might be better if it costs less was the basis
> behind BEST. Some disillusioned FIRST mentors started BEST as an affordable
> alternative. It's a nice idea but some of the schools involved in BEST use
> it as an excuse not to consider FIRST or for that matter, other science and
> math initiatives (an unexpected consequence) . FIRST challenges schools to
> look at their finances and consider carefully the fact that they are able to
> afford football stadiums, baseball fields, basketball courts, team
> equipment, coaches... OK you see what I mean. These are all good things and
> FIRST doesn't suggest schools should discontinue their athletics programs,
> BUT we in the US have done a great job of producing athletes only to find
> that we now face a severe shortage of engineers and scientists. In the end,
> it doesn't matter if the Cowboys or Rangers or Stars win or lose... the
> lights will still be on, the water will be clean, the cars will still run...
> but we run out of competent engineers and life as we know it will get a lot
> harder. FIRST also causes schools to see the possibility that they CAN
> produce top notch, enthusiastic, students which in the end, is their mandate
> and from that point of view, they see FIRST as an investment.
>
>    All that being said, I agree 6K is a lot but I plan to help my son's high
> school form a FIRST team next year.
>
>     As another aside. FIRST is aggressively planning to have a Dallas
> regional by no later than 2010.
>
>  OK I can find no unbeaten places on this dead horse so I guess I'm done...
>
>
>  Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Pete Bergstrom <bergstro at usa.net>
>  To: dprglist at dprg.org
>  Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:42 am
>  Subject: RE: [DPRG] Processing unit for mobile robot
>
>
>
>  Randy M. Dumse wrote:
>
> > John Swindle said: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:08 AM
>
> >> The notable exception is the LabVIEW FPGA that can be
>
> >> embedded in the backplane of industrial controllers to give
>
> >> microsecond resolution and loop rates that are closer to
>
> >> that. Way beyond hobbyist prices.
>
> >
>
> > And yet I just heard on the Seattle list FIRST has chosen the
>
> > LabVIEW Compact RIO for their microcontroller for 2009. That has
>
> > a 400MHz processor and an FPGA in it. And I have to wonder how
>
> > the kid's teams will afford those things.
>
>
>
> It's quite a financing challenge, I think. From my involvement this year
> with
>
> a FRC team, I understand the sponsor paid $6k to FIRST. The team got a kit
> of
>
> parts (KOP) and a portion of the $6k towards other expenses.
>
>
>
> The IFI controller included in the KOP for at least the last 2 years has a
>
> sale price of about $1k; I assume that FIRST gets a break on that. They have
>
> already indicated that teams should delay buying the RIO controller until
> the
>
> start of the new season as they're working on a price break (from the $2.5k
>
> currently indicated).
>
>
>
> I have little doubt that the teams already participating in FRC will be able
>
> to take on the RIO. I do wonder how many more kids would participate if the
>
> sponsorship costs were more affordable. Adding regional tournaments (as in
>
> Minnesota this year) surely reduces the cost for teams to participate by
>
> cutting down on the travel costs, so that's a positive step.
>
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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