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[DPRG] Re: Allen Robots (Will's emotions)
Subject: [DPRG] Re: Allen Robots (Will's emotions)
From: Randy M. Dumse
rmd at newmicros.com
Date: Mon Mar 12 14:35:56 CDT 2007
> If classically defined atoms are the deep levels mentioned
> here then it follows that states are fairly immutable life
> conditions that biological processes and behaviors move
between.
You have my general meaning there.
> In the early 1900's our working knowledge of electron orbits
> described specific orbital distances, pathing, and energy
> levels. Easy to draw and easy to teach, the model has uses
> and can still be found in educational materials.
Yes. The Bohr model made predictions which tested true. It
wasn't that it was taken to be what was actually happening, but
as a model it was useful. There perhaps the useful part of the
analogy ends. State is much more than just energy levels in
orbitals.
> It is more likely that biological processes are better
> modeled as existing within a probability cloud.
While what you say is true, about the probability cloud, I think
it is wrong to then say, this point in the cloud means this and
that end means that. There are other ways of storing information
at the near molecular level.
For instance, DNA spends most of its time coiled. I've often
thought there is as much, perhaps more, information in how the
DNA is folded than there is in the DNA itself. DNA tends to
exhibit internal counters. Different portions are active at
different times. I've imagined this can be the coil slipping one
position per bit of information. The information is not stored
at the eletron level, but in the sliding of coils past each
other.
> We naturally slip, within a few seconds, in and out of
> presumed states like 'situational awareness,' 'high alert,'
> 'happy,' and 'meditation.' Witness that feelings of 'hunger'
> and 'full bladder' will come and go many times before being
> satisfied.
This I also have noticed and pondered. There seems to be a
hierarchy, where the most pressing can become the most
prominent. As you say, you are generally not hungry and lonely
at the same time.
Dpa has suggested leaky integrators as the agent. When stimuli
cause excitation, a level rises until it is noticed. The leaking
due to the lack of stimuli may cause the level to go down
quickly and never become noticed. Somewhere inbetween is how an
emotion arrises to the level of attention. It's not a bad model
to consider either.
> A twitching camera wasn't offered as an example of
> intelligent behavior. It apparently sounds like a bug or
> mental illness from my description. But perhaps we should
> discuss canine tail wagging.
No, I understood your meaning.
I offered another. My point being, you cannot know how that
communications will be taken by another person until you have
done some testing on a wide audience. You find it endearing.
Another annoying. Another a bad tune.
> The canine tail seems frivolous and even a waste of energy
> yet may influence our fondness, trust, and the historical
> Western desire to further the development of the species as
> companions rather than as food.
Agreed. I put my hands behind the small of my back and wiggle
them. My wife's Pom twitches her tail in reply. It is part of a
significant "silent" communications mode built into dogs. Very
useful for group hunting.
> I don't view this camera behavior as intelligent. Maybe it
> is better called fortuitous than emergent.
I am fine with emergent.
I find it fascinating how they showed emotion on R2D2 in the
star wars set. He did some side to side hoping and shaking to
show excitement. I wonder how hard the creaters of that bot
(didn't it have a midget in it some of the time) to create that
artifact!
The thing I see in BBR, is a very restricted hierarchy, with
only one path of subsumption, up and down a single pole. My
suspicion is animals are much more complex, with emotions more
like the leaky integrators. When they fill up, more than others,
they become the dominate emotion, and carry the influence over
selection of many lower possible behaviors.
To me, emotions are the control structure on top of lower level
sequencing behaviors.
Randy
www.newmicros.com
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