DPRG mailing list archives: [DPRG] Re: Allen Robots (Will's emotions)

Mon Mar 12 10:39:26 CDT 2007

On 3/12/07, Randy M. Dumse <rmd at newmicros.com> wrote:
> > > Creating states for states sake may not be an end goal, but
> it does
> > > seem to model the way animals and physics at very deep
> levels work.
> >
> > Yes, but the question remains to be seen if a finite state
> > machine is a useful modeling tool for such things; they have
> > a narrow definition of "state", too.
>
> Eric reminds me that the engineer's use of state includes
> details of analog levels and every detail of a system.
>
> I do have a narrower view, remembering charge is quantitized.
> Ultimately, everything is state, of a simpler kind. The analog
> level is an illusion of incomplete knowledge. That difference in
> definition aside...
>
> I don't think it remains to be seen if finite state machines are
> useful modeling tools. They have long been seen as a way to
> visualize certain difficult problems, hardware functions and
> natural language processors. So what is in question?

Why yes, for some things they are wonderful modelling tools.  What I
question is your belief (as it seems to me) that they are useful to
model everything.  Considering your two examples, I am not convinced
that animal behavior can be modelled well by a finite state machine.
Neither am I convinced that it cannot.  In any case, to me, it does
not yet make a compelling argument.

I assume that you are talking about quantum physics when you say
"physics at very deep levels", given your later reference to quanta in
charge.  According to Bell's theorem,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem> there is no system of
hidden variables (states) that can properly explain the results of
quantum physics.  I will admit that I don't quite understand the
experiment, but this seems to rebut your point that physics is,
fundamentally, a state machine.

I would appreciate being shown to be wrong on either (or both) of
these topics, but until then I will likely remain unconvinced of the
finite state machine as the all-purpouse real-world modelling tool.

  -- Eric